JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: Real Questions That WCR Supporters Run From...
"Oh, I'm sure you already know, Patrick. It's quite clear that Chaney is riding FORWARD of the limo's rear bumper."
I disagree. In the large format 2013 Life book "The Day Kennedy Died" there is a 36 x 24 cm high quality reproduction of Altgens 6.
Whilst this is not 100% scientifically provable, if one measure the size of the white police helmets of Chaney who is to Altgen's left and Hargis who is to Altgen's right, the helmets are 1.1 cm and 1.0 cm in width respectively.
As you can clearly see that Hargis's cycle's shadow is slightly behind the front wheel of the follow up car - level with Hill, it would seem logical to conclude that Chaney's position was almost the same as Hargis's ie behind the JFK limo and NOT forward of the rear bumper.
The photo is taken with a 35mm Nikkorex-F single lens reflex camera with a 105mm telephoto lens, ...hence there is a small element of zoom which will squash the images somewhat, but I do not see how YOU can conclude from this image that the position of Chaney is where you think it is other wise his helmet would almost certainly appear to be bigger than it is because he would be some 6ft or so closer to Altgens.
The Zapruder film does not show Chaney to Zapruder's left because Chaney was NOT far enough forward.
Holmes your interpretation is wrong again.
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I disagree. In the large format 2013 Life book "The Day Kennedy Died" there is a 36 x 24 cm high quality reproduction of Altgens 6.
Whilst this is not 100% scientifically provable, if one measure the size of the white police helmets of Chaney who is to Altgen's left and Hargis who is to Altgen's right, the helmets are 1.1 cm and 1.0 cm in width respectively.
As you can clearly see that Hargis's cycle's shadow is slightly behind the front wheel of the follow up car - level with Hill, it would seem logical to conclude that Chaney's position was almost the same as Hargis's ie behind the JFK limo and NOT forward of the rear bumper.
The photo is taken with a 35mm Nikkorex-F single lens reflex camera with a 105mm telephoto lens, ...hence there is a small element of zoom which will squash the images somewhat, but I do not see how YOU can conclude from this image that the position of Chaney is where you think it is other wise his helmet would almost certainly appear to be bigger than it is because he would be some 6ft or so closer to Altgens.
The Zapruder film does not show Chaney to Zapruder's left because Chaney was NOT far enough forward.
Holmes your interpretation is wrong again.
Statistics: Posted by Patrick C — Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:55 am
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Posted on July 15th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: What Is The Official Government Conclusion On The JFK Assassination?
RE: WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT CONCLUSION ON THE JFK ASSASSINATION?#721
by Lee Abbott » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:51 pm
Patrick C said to William Charleston, "There were 2 or 3 shots all from the TSBD and that is it....get over it."
That settles it then.... Let's all go fishing.
In Wyoming where I'm at it is $14/day for an out of state fishing license. It's cheaper to go to the store and buy dinner. So fishing is out. At least until I leave this state.
But John Connally's movements in the Zapruder film are fair game with no license required.
Why did Connally get bent over so quickly in the Zapruder film and virtually everyone ignores that movement (especially because Connally said "the force of the blow bent me over")? It is a fascinating question to me.
Statistics: Posted by William Charleston — Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:38 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: Real Questions That WCR Supporters Run From...
Patrick C wrote:
Ben Holmes wrote:Why does Altgens show Chaney in a position that he's never seen in the extant Z-film?
Please elucidate .....thanks
Oh, I'm sure you already know, Patrick. It's quite clear that Chaney is riding FORWARD of the limo's rear bumper.
I'm amused that you picked an item that relies on sight... but as we already know, you can look straight at two weapons, and fail to see one of them... so you won't be able to credibly make any argument at all based on what is seen.
Tell us Patrick - why do you avoid the issues where there's simply no debate? Such as what the largest foreign object that can be seen in the AP X-ray?
Oops... that's another vision problem...
Forget it...
Statistics: Posted by Ben Holmes — Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:52 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: A Rifle Through The Post Office???
"Sorry Lee... opinions aren't lies. As long as Patrick is making it clear that he's only expressing his opinion, this forum will not allow that poster to be labeled a liar."
I respectfully disagree... When someone makes a ridiculous statement, then adds, "That's my opinion," it's as good as a lie.
If, for example, I said,"Patrick's brother is married to a chip, imo," how would you "label" that if not a lie?
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I respectfully disagree... When someone makes a ridiculous statement, then adds, "That's my opinion," it's as good as a lie.
If, for example, I said,"Patrick's brother is married to a chip, imo," how would you "label" that if not a lie?
Statistics: Posted by Lee Abbott — Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:38 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: Real Questions That WCR Supporters Run From...
"Why does Altgens show Chaney in a position that he's never seen in the extant Z-film?"
Please elucidate .....thanks
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Please elucidate .....thanks
Statistics: Posted by Patrick C — Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:22 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Re: A Rifle Through The Post Office???
"Sorry Lee... opinions aren't lies. As long as Patrick is making it clear that he's only expressing his opinion, this forum will not allow that poster to be labeled a liar.
Pointed out "Lies" must be factual, preferably on the evidence, and both the quote of the lie, as well as a citation to the evidence proving it a lie should be provided.
I'm quite sure that even Patrick would agree with such a policy.
Yes agreed, Lee accuses me of lying all the time elsewhere too......poor fellow, maybe he fell over and hit is head and can't quite think straight.....
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Pointed out "Lies" must be factual, preferably on the evidence, and both the quote of the lie, as well as a citation to the evidence proving it a lie should be provided.
I'm quite sure that even Patrick would agree with such a policy.
Yes agreed, Lee accuses me of lying all the time elsewhere too......poor fellow, maybe he fell over and hit is head and can't quite think straight.....
Statistics: Posted by Patrick C — Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:20 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
JFK Conspiracy Main Forum • Real Questions That WCR Supporters Run From...
The real question is why believers care about this issue. After all, Oswald's dead, right? The government has investigated, and you believe them, right?
So why do *YOU* care?
And if you truly *do* care, why do you snip and run? Why are believers famous for not supporting their own words?
Why do believers run in fright from such simple questions as:
Why was the closest police eyewitness to the murder - who just coincidentally would have testified in contradiction to the SBT, never questioned by the FBI or Warren Commission prior to the release of the WCR?
Why were the NAA results buried by the WC?
Why were the test results of firing a rifle at Oak Ridge buried, and are still denied by most believers today?
Why was a ballistics expert hired by the WC fired when he refused to endorse their theory?
Why did the FBI engage in a pattern of eyewitness intimidation to get the statements they wanted?
What was the largest foreign object seen in the AP X-ray? (John McAdams absolutely HATES this question...)
What is the 6.5mm virtually round object that no-one saw in the AP X-ray on the night of the Autopsy... and why was everyone so blind on the night of the autopsy?
How can a bullet transit without breaking the spine, as has been conclusively demonstrated with CAT scans?
Why was dissection of the bullet track, and neck wound, forbidden to the prosectors? Why were they allowed to dissect the chest incisions, which were clearly not bullet wounds, but not allowed to dissect the bullet wounds?
Why have photographs and X-rays disappeared out of the inventory? Only the government had control of them...
Why did the CIA have a program of harassment of CT authors, and why did they actively promote the WCR through their friendly news contacts?
Why did the Secret Service remove the limo from the jurisdiction of the DPD? Perhaps an argument can be made for removing JFK's body - as Johnson needed Jackie with him to provide an aura of legitimacy, but there was NO valid reason to remove the scene of the crime from Dallas - or was there? Can you provide it?
Why is there no 'chain of evidence' on so much of the evidence in this case? CE399, for example, almost no-one who originally handled it will identify it.
Why did the FBI seem so insistent on erasing the record of a Minox camera owned by LHO?
Why were military intelligence files on LHO never released... even to government investigators?
Why did both the WC and HSCA find it necessary to *LIE* about their own collected evidence in order to support their conclusions? In the case of the HSCA, it's not even disputable - they lied blatantly about the medical testimony... why??
Why have so many new "scientific" theories been developed for this case? Never before heard - such as the "jet effect" and "eyewitness unreliability" and "photographs trump eyewitnesses"?
Why does Altgens show Chaney in a position that he's never seen in the extant Z-film?
Why do dozen's of eyewitnesses agree on a slowdown or stop of the limo, yet we can't see it in the Z-film?
Why do dozens of eyewitnesses agree with each other on the location of the large wound on the back of JFK's head, in contradiction to the BOH photo?
Why does the Autopsy Report contradict the BOH photo? (And why can't even a single believer ADMIT that the Autopsy Report contradicts the BOH photo?)
When and where did Chaney speak with Curry? Why don't any photos or videos show this?
And last... why will you snip these, and refuse to respond? I can give REASONABLE and CREDIBLE explanations for the evidence, believers cannot. It's that simple.
Watch as believers absolutely REFUSE to respond to these questions... (no need to answer 'em all - that's something believers can't do... so pick your favorite, and let the apologetics begin...)
via ConspiracyJFKForum.com http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=95&p=733#p733
So why do *YOU* care?
And if you truly *do* care, why do you snip and run? Why are believers famous for not supporting their own words?
Why do believers run in fright from such simple questions as:
Why was the closest police eyewitness to the murder - who just coincidentally would have testified in contradiction to the SBT, never questioned by the FBI or Warren Commission prior to the release of the WCR?
Why were the NAA results buried by the WC?
Why were the test results of firing a rifle at Oak Ridge buried, and are still denied by most believers today?
Why was a ballistics expert hired by the WC fired when he refused to endorse their theory?
Why did the FBI engage in a pattern of eyewitness intimidation to get the statements they wanted?
What was the largest foreign object seen in the AP X-ray? (John McAdams absolutely HATES this question...)
What is the 6.5mm virtually round object that no-one saw in the AP X-ray on the night of the Autopsy... and why was everyone so blind on the night of the autopsy?
How can a bullet transit without breaking the spine, as has been conclusively demonstrated with CAT scans?
Why was dissection of the bullet track, and neck wound, forbidden to the prosectors? Why were they allowed to dissect the chest incisions, which were clearly not bullet wounds, but not allowed to dissect the bullet wounds?
Why have photographs and X-rays disappeared out of the inventory? Only the government had control of them...
Why did the CIA have a program of harassment of CT authors, and why did they actively promote the WCR through their friendly news contacts?
Why did the Secret Service remove the limo from the jurisdiction of the DPD? Perhaps an argument can be made for removing JFK's body - as Johnson needed Jackie with him to provide an aura of legitimacy, but there was NO valid reason to remove the scene of the crime from Dallas - or was there? Can you provide it?
Why is there no 'chain of evidence' on so much of the evidence in this case? CE399, for example, almost no-one who originally handled it will identify it.
Why did the FBI seem so insistent on erasing the record of a Minox camera owned by LHO?
Why were military intelligence files on LHO never released... even to government investigators?
Why did both the WC and HSCA find it necessary to *LIE* about their own collected evidence in order to support their conclusions? In the case of the HSCA, it's not even disputable - they lied blatantly about the medical testimony... why??
Why have so many new "scientific" theories been developed for this case? Never before heard - such as the "jet effect" and "eyewitness unreliability" and "photographs trump eyewitnesses"?
Why does Altgens show Chaney in a position that he's never seen in the extant Z-film?
Why do dozen's of eyewitnesses agree on a slowdown or stop of the limo, yet we can't see it in the Z-film?
Why do dozens of eyewitnesses agree with each other on the location of the large wound on the back of JFK's head, in contradiction to the BOH photo?
Why does the Autopsy Report contradict the BOH photo? (And why can't even a single believer ADMIT that the Autopsy Report contradicts the BOH photo?)
When and where did Chaney speak with Curry? Why don't any photos or videos show this?
And last... why will you snip these, and refuse to respond? I can give REASONABLE and CREDIBLE explanations for the evidence, believers cannot. It's that simple.
Watch as believers absolutely REFUSE to respond to these questions... (no need to answer 'em all - that's something believers can't do... so pick your favorite, and let the apologetics begin...)
Statistics: Posted by Ben Holmes — Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:55 pm
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Posted on July 14th, 2016
Conspiracy JFK Forum
Conspiracy JFK Forum
Ben Holmes
1880 Teal Club Road, Oxnard, CA 93030
(805) 889-2282
http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/
Ben Holmes
1880 Teal Club Road, Oxnard, CA 93030
(805) 889-2282
http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/
ConspiracyJFKForum is for the discussion & debate on the Warren Commission's myth of a Lone Gunman. Long since discredited by researchers and further investigations - the myth of Lee Harvey Oswald as the lone gunman still continues to live on in the main stream media. Unfortunately, those who continue to believe in the Warren Commission have grave difficulties in trying to defend the coverup story given by the Warren Commission - and here at ConspiracyJFKForum - you'll see the very best efforts made to defend the Warren Commission fail.
Posted on July 13th, 2016